Why Women Are So Angry With Men… #YesAllWomen
#YesAllWomen caused a big blog-o-storm and got plenty of media interest, but it certainly wasn’t anything new… and fear around sexual violence or misogyny is far from the only complaint that women have about men.
Women constantly complain about men.
Although many women are in wonderful relationships with wonderful men, and although many women LOVE men and are filled with hopes and dreams for meeting a wonderful man… All women have a deep-down, smoldering rage against the hairier gender.
Yes, women can love men, and be disgusted with the male gender at the same time.
If you watch a scene in any movie or television broadcast where 2 or more women are sitting around a table, unless the subject is an imminent zombie attack or asteroid strike, they are complaining about men.
Because everyone who watches that scene, “gets it.” It resonates. It feels true. We relate to the characters.
Women constantly complain about men.
And who can blame them? The human condition for straight women is to be naturally attracted to a gender that is not only capable of harming them physically, but is also well noted for seeking sexual variety and dramatic bouts of insecurity which means men also frequently hurt them emotionally.
Worse, the very things that women are attracted to in men — confidence, power, assertiveness, humor, competitiveness, sexual passion — are also the qualities that are likely to make a man un-trustable in many circumstances.
So women complain about those qualities and label men neanderthal, player, or douche-bag, and become insecure or angry when they see their man exhibiting those characteristics.
Men who are “nice” and would “never hurt a fly” often win a woman’s heart, but not her attraction, which can lead women to become ever more frustrated.
So women complain that their man lacks sexual passion, that he doesn’t excite her.
For both men and women, this is a no-win scenario.
Worse, because society sets women up to seek Prince-Charmings (my wife prefers Prince Eric from “The Little Mermaid”), they have unrealistic notions about what a good man is supposed to look like. They set standards that are not only unattainable, but probably wouldn’t make them happy in a real human anyway.
Relating to flesh-and-blood, inconsistent humans that are not always in control of their emotions or thoughts is not anything like relating to Prince Charming.
Men, being human, are very complicated creatures (though women also tend to complain that they are simple).
We come wired with great potential for loyalty, nobility, sacrifice, compassion, nurturing, heroism, and love, and we deeply yearn to find a home for those feelings, a mate that we can give ourselves to completely…
And we also come wired with aggression, insecurity, fear of being made into fools, and an unrelenting and unfocused sex drive.
And the complication is that those two opposing forces are LINKED to one another in our masculinity.
When a woman fears, feels insecurity or jealousy, or mistrust’s her man’s sexuality, she begins to actively look for justifications of her fear and punishes her man for his masculinity, which in turn makes men too insecure and angry to give themselves fully to a woman in the way they yearn to.
It’s my observation that neither men nor women in our society have a realistic ideal for what masculinity ought to look like in a intimate relationship, and until they do, men will continue to disappoint women simply by being men.
The possibility for women:
My friend Annie Lalla, one of the very few true genius thought leaders in the science and art of relationships, says that anger is a “veneer emotion” that is covering some other emotion below that is simply too difficult to deal with. In this case, it seems like most of the anger is covering fear, un-safety, and disappointment.
There are women who overcome their own fears and insecurities enough to genuinely love men through their human faults, who embrace what is male in their partner, both the pleasant and not-so-pleasant, and allow their men the full freedom of self expression.
For those women, the reward is a man who has not been robbed of his capacity for passion, loyalty, and selfless love. There are no guarantees with humans… but at least the possibility exists.
The possibility for men:
To stand undiminished in the onslaught of his woman’s (quite reasonable) fears with compassion in place of defensiveness. At the bottom of her disappointment, buried beneath her fears, lives her infinite capacity for surrender and love.
For those men the reward is a woman who is capable of profound surrender and perfect acceptance. There are no guarantees with humans… but the possibility for true love exists here.
Hi I think the communication system breaks down….no flow….men will never be able to stop being men…so if you want a relationship with a real man….suck it up!! If he oggles other women…..makes silly comments that hurt you….suck it up…If he forgets important dates….you get the picture…be strong and lovable no matter what..You can mirror his behaviors and see what he thinks…
Hey Peg, men will never stop being men, but that doesn’t mean you have to “suck it up.” I’d like to believe there are infinite options between resentment and “suck it up”… In fact, “suck it up” is a leading cause of resentment.
What about compassion? Vulnerable dialog without blame? Positive reinforcement? Honoring of each other’s humanity?
What I’m talking about isn’t easy, and nobody ever gets it “right” or perfect… It’s a practice. It’s the action of loving from a place of deep self-trust.
Hoorah Alex. Put better thanI could have and I have a hope that both Peg and I find. the person and the balance that we re looking for.
Predictably, the writer blames men for their “inadequacy” and justifies female anger with her assertion that men deserve scorn for being inadequate. Women are expected to bring nothing to the table but their right to be completely satisfied while giving nothing in return.
Hey man, “the writer” here. Predictably I encourage everyone towards self responsibility, men and women. Check out my previous post:
Then re-read your post here, your judgement of women as a group, and deeply consider your anger towards all women because of that broken heart you suffered at the hands of a woman you felt gave you nothing in return.
Your future happiness truly depends upon you dealing with that anger.
being a man doesnt automaticlly mean being a douchebag. If he forgets important dates that is because hes probablly a insensetive idiot and he doesnt really care that much.
Now you have asociated a lot of bad qualities to being male which would mean you have some inner healing to do when it comes to relating to male population.
My guess is some negative past experience jaded you.
Sound like you fall into the nice men category. I married one. However, I get my needs and fantasies satisfied by the other kind. Sadly, I think Peg is on the money 🙁
I read Your comments and had to laugh ’cause only a small portion of what You said was actually true!!! But, so You and other women can get a better idea of what You are dealing with, I’m going to share with You what I tell “All My Female Friends” about “Males” so they can make sure they line themselves up with the “Correct” type they are seeking!!! I am 59 yrs old and look like I’m actually 43 yrs…I eat good, healthy and take care of My Body, so My Body has returned the favor by aging at a slower pace. I grew up in New York and spent 20+ yrs of My Life servicing in the U.S. Military, so I have had extensive travel around the World…so with all this being said, I have dealt with many different people and their cultures over the decades. This is a breakdown of how I categorize Males: 1st there are those who think only of themselves and what they can get out of a “Female”…they could care less what your needs are, and feel that You should be happy just to be with them, they don’t want to date “Women” ’cause they can’t handle someone who is Educated, Intelligent, Ambitious or has Self-confidence…these are called “Boys”!!!! They like to party/Club and run the streets with the “Fellas” and keep a “Body Count” of how many women they can conquer in the Bedroom, but remember You are Only having Sex with them, so don’t expect an Orgasm or to Fall in Love, ’cause 15 mins and they’re Done!!! Next You have “Guys” they are a step above “Boys” and will spend time with You and even take You out occasionally and introduce You to some friends, but they haven’t “Matured” yet to the level where they are completely concerned about Your needs, they figure if they do something “Nice” for You then You have to automatically do something back in return…if they see You upset or crying, they may or may not ask You why!!! Most of their actions are based on “Advice from their Road Dawgs” and they will try that advice out on You (Experimentation is what I call this Method) as a “Guinea Pig” You may experiencing a lot of Frustration with Them!!! And then finally, You have “Men”…though they are the Best of the Male Species, they are not “Perfect”, but they will try Their “Best” to make You happy and feel “Loved”!!! They don’t want to date Females that act like “Girls”…No Way, We want a “Women”, One who is Intelligent and knows how to string more than 2 or 3 sentences togwther without getting “Tongue Tied”, someone who can be “Down-to-Earth”, know how to enjoy Life, be Classy and Keep Her Cool in Public. A Man wants someone who can make Him want to Bond & grow with them, and somewhat of a challenge, in some respects…But the bottom line is a Man knows how to “Make Love” to His Woman!!! He will start from in the morning sending You texts, Instagrams, or emails when You are at Work…then at Lunchtime or in the afternoon sending You another message of how Nice or Sexy You look, or how You make Him Feel “Manly” and then will tell You again at Evening or Night time how You “Make Him Think & Feel for You”!!! In other words, Men will “Romance” or “Make Love” to Their Woman “All Day Long” in Their Hearts & Mind, to prepare You both for the “Physical Love” to happen!!! So, They not only know Alex’s Techniques, but Always make sure that You are “Well Pleased and have Multiple Orgasms”…They get Off on knowing that They are giving You what You Want, and that in turn will get Them to Orgasm better as well!!! Hope this clears up any misconceptions of what Men act like…Also, Men will take “Notes whether it’s a Mental or Electronically” so they will remember Important Events!!!
It is a big relief for me to know that there are thoughtful MEN out there that understand the situation!
I am nothing more than disappointed by men. I have yet to find one who holds himself to having great character. Try going online to date. I had a lovely dinner last week with good conversation only to be totally humiliated at the end of our evening. He wanted submissiveness. Most are superficial and set high expectations for themselves in wanting an exterior of high standards. I have to laugh. You can say you will never settle but I fully understand the reason most will be alone in life! I like men. I get along with men. I have never found a man who can justify his purpose in life. I have yet to find one who can capture my essence as a true feminine entity. So sad!
Thank you for your raw honesty Stef. A LOT of women feel like you do… perhaps most. Sadly, it’s been my experience that MARRIED women feel that way too, but have compromised so deeply that they can’t even remember being a woman that once believed in the possibilities of love.
Yes, it is sad.
AND… I encourage you to read the comments from my reader, Ken, who posted on the last article and many others. He feels about women exactly as you feel about men.
Neither of you are wrong. Your experience is factual. It is simply your experience.
However, your conclusions are hurting you and preventing you from getting what you want.
Close friends and clients of mine have had very different experiences in their relationships with men. And the common factor in all of your relationships with men is you. That is NOT to say that you are to blame, but to point strongly to the possibility that you have opportunities to create this differently.
You are quite right in your argument, Alex….the failing in both sexes being unrealistic expectations. Once the glass slipper fits, hey, it’s happy ever after! Relationships are a lifelong journey and understanding another’s viewpoint and motivation is the first step toward fulfillment. To the extent this empathy can be given and received the relationship will flourish….
Yes, Bob, exactly. The solution is not to change the expectations, but to drop them. Replace expectations with compassion.
To be honest I don’t quite understand what you mean when you say replace expectations with compassion. To me they don’t have much to do with one another, and in a way I get the sense that you’re saying for people not to have a level of standards. Or are standards and exceptions two separate things as well? I’m trying to understand, so if possible elaborate on what you mean.
Correct, they do not have much to do with each other Lee.
Expectations are your pre-conceived notions of what you imagine the other person to be. They are not likely to line up with your ideas, for better or for worse.
Compassion is rooted in curiously discovering the other person and then empathically reaching for understanding of why they are being the way they are being, and not finding fault with the humanity that you discover there… because on a deep level you understand that your own humanity is also showing up in all of your actions and feelings.
Standards are great, and preferences are natural, but they must be tempered with the wisdom of knowing that humans are going to be inconsistent in meeting those standards and preferences.
I get the impression from most of this discussion (and the previous one about men being angry) that:
1) you keep referring to the one sex being “human” and IMPERFECT, and thus INCONSISTENT in living up to the other sex’s standards ALL the time (100% or A+), whereas I think:
2) some/many of your commenters are referring to the opposite sex as being, or usually being, completely INCAPABLE of EVER hitting the expectations/standards even once (0% or F for “FAIL”).
Total opposite-end of the expectation-spectrum, bro. Nobody should put up with FAIL.
I believe that one of the root causes of the female “disgruntlement” with men is their perception that men have an over-sized sense of entitlement. For example: if a woman chooses to be sexual once with a man, he feels he is entitled to her sexual favors whenever he wants. If she withholds from him, then she is usually given a not-so-nice pejorative. Women are taught to please and serve men and many times men take advantage of them There are many non sexual examples also. I think this is a cultural norm and has killed off any resemblance of chivalry in the relationships.
Yes, AND the opposite too… sometimes a woman chooses to be sexual once and hopes for more and finds a stone wall on the other side, or broken promises, or a man who fails to satisfy her sexually and is too ashamed to learn how to do better, or a man who is so terrified of infidelity that he become possessive…
The questions I’m hoping that women consider deeply is:
What role do they play in this situation?
Where do they do the very same things to men?
What is our shared human experience in this and how can we learn to become the kind of person who can relate differently?
Amazing follow-up post! I really loved both of the posts and the first thing that comes to mind is how f*****-up our society is and have been. I bet it is really tough for women all around to have this frustration and onslaught the only men who were always by their sides and then see that their feelings were not hurt by him but by other men and they did the onslaught because of feelings burried inside and they could not help it. I think that society permits that men do some things to women that really try to reinforce a inferiority that really should not exist. Compassion and true respect is the true way for real men to deserve great women in their lives.
I think you have the story backwards. I believe women are better at making a man feel less than and Emotionally hurt. There are more ways to hurt someone than just physically. Women are very good at hurting men in ways you can not see because they know they can not compete physically.
Not backwards, Jim, but rather 2 stories that are occurring simultaneously:
Ignore either of these stories and believe that only one of them is true, and it is impossible to create True Love.
Women complain about everything, it is in their nature. Men just happen to be their current target.
I agree that neither men nor women understand what mature masculine looks like. It is equally true that few people understand what mature feminine looks like. Is constantly complaining mature?
As I became painfully aware of how commonly women complain about men I remembered the words of a mystic I studied with. “A person cannot respect and honor another until they respect and honor themselves.” It occurred to me that perhaps women first had to respect and honor their feminine before they can respect and honor the masculine. Within a few weeks the pattern became clear. Women who complain about men do not understand their feminine power, they do not respect, honor, and value their feminine wisdom and power.
And yes, as a man I choose to work to understand, respect, value, and honor my masculine wisdom and strength. As I understand my own masculine capacities I notice and open to feminine capacities that contrast with the masculine. Seeing the contrast allows me to value and enjoy what is different.
Both the feminine and the masculine can be ugly and destructive. Both can be expressions of beauty, supportive, cooperative, and loving.
I look forward to a day when most women understand and honor their feminine wisdom and power for then they will easily notice the value in the masculine. In those days I will spend my energies honoring women rather than healing the wounds constant complaining brings.
Oh yeah, a real man doesn’t waste his time complaining. He honors himself by looking for ways to fix the problem.
Women have a hard time embracing their femininity because we are told it is useless and silly. We are told that what we represent is inferior to men. The patriarchy killed off the goddess. So, that is why many of us act like men.
Why do you want to wait to some future time to honor the feminine? The divine feminine hasn’t changed at all..or are you just making excuses?
Great analysis. It’s a love-hate relationship between the sexes, that’s for sure. And there’s anger on both sides as a result. But the possibilities are there to overcome anyway.
Men generally just want to make a partner happy. How he does that is affected by how his attempts are received. Appreciating him, even if he doesn’t get it right for you, is important or he may give up trying. Unconscious, unaddressed anger will only ever destroy good things, eventually.
Women who have been raised by a mother who is angry with her father leads her to not see the best in any man from the get go. She may go on to project that anger into every relationship she has.
My partner thought ‘All women were like that!’ When we met he was a little confused by the respect shown to him and expected from him. He had lived with the kind of women who manipulate and berate and went into the office on a Monday to listen to his colleagues moan collectively about the same things. Now he knows that not ‘all’ women are the same. This has allowed him to look at his own behaviours and responses, taking responsibilities for his interactions in the game playing that went on before and allowing him to change that.
Allowing him to become that man I knew he would always be, has allowed me to let go of my own insecurities and become the woman I deserve to be too. Conflict free, loving relationships are so much easier to be in and so nourishing, why would we be anything else?
Of course practicing a different behaviour can only come from honesty with yourself and accepting when it is actually you who is wrong and accepting your own responsibilities for making it better.
Both men and women who stop projecting latent anger at their partner and get help to deal with it in a different way, have better interactions with each other. Of course, keeping it simple is not always so simple. Knowing that there is a problem in the first place and then knowing what to do about it can make the difference between changing it, or not!
Well said Su! And I’m glad you are out there coaching and helping folks get this stuff.
For so many women this is going to sound like you wrote it in a foreign language because they have not had any experiences from their perspective of “men generally want to make a partner happy.”
Until I learned for myself what I was projecting, I didn’t know why I attracted men who were not respectful, the angry man. I learned from my own childhood to be outwardly strong, but inwardly submissive and less than. How confusing for all. It took a while to understand what I had to do for myself, so that I could let go of the doctrines of my childhood and realise that I could create my life differently. I am now able to be a strong woman who is also vulnerable and embrace all that love brings with it. Fear of being vulnerable in the eyes of others is a wall that prevents love entering our lives. Accepting vulnerability in ourselves and others and not using it as a weapon to harm each other or to steal each others power, can create space for intimacy and deep love.
Gee, kind of funny that I agree with the posts by the 3 men. Sorry Peg and Stef. Both men and women have issues, alone and with a partner. Women can be pretty demanding just as much as men can be. I realize that our society is not going to change with a few posts on this site Alex, but it is very interesting. I had almost the same comments to say when you posted “why men are so angry.” I love men to be men and women to be women. When each other tries to change the dynamic, that’s when we start having troubles. Besides my husband of 36 years, I can count on 1 hand how many men I have been with. So can’t really speak for others. But the few I have known, have been great guys. Let’s not make it a battle. One should find more love, rather than a fight. Thank you.
Thank you Betsy!
(But don’t tell me that I can’t change society with a few posts on this site! Grrrr!)
Alex, yes you are right, in the fact that you may be able to change society with a few posts on your site. I did not mean to say that as being the solution. Both men and women are angry with each other far too often. We should all remember one of the 70s greatest slogans, make love not war. This is a wonderful site, and I thank you for that. I have learned many things from you and the people that comment. Look forward to the next post. Thanks Alex.
Actually Alex, I agree with Betsy on this one. Whether this is due to the way I was raised or the fact that I just read Scott McKay’s newsletter on the blame game, the fact of the matter, which is something I’ve observed on both posts, is that even if you state the truth in the best, most tactful and politically correct way possible while still stating all the honest truth, there are going to be those people who are going to blame these issues on another party so they don’t have to take responsibility for their own shortcomings.
I don’t even have to present proof of that. If you’ve been reading all of the comments left on this post and the previous one, you’ve probably noticed that, even with your comments, they’re still blaming another party instead of taking responsibility for their own actions, feelings, or beliefs.
Scott McKay actually stated it a lot better than I ever could but essentially playing the blame game gets rid of any responsibility but it also allows someone to play the victim and avoid growing under the guise of being “Powerless.” Again, a few people on these two posts of yours have actually proven this and, I’m not going to state names, because if they read this, they already know who they are. And, unless I’m as charismatic in this comment as I am in real life, even after reading this, they’re still probably going to fail to see how much power they have over their own situations. And that’s the thing, everyone, especially people with victim mentalities, have more control and more power than they realize.
This can happen to anyone, anyone can jump in this boat and stay on it for a long time. Honestly, as much as I would like to, I can’t change the world, but I am glad that I’ve been able to jump off that boat, swim to shore, and actually improve everything about my life. My life and my self haven’t improved as much as I would’ve liked but I am still seeing results and I’m glad about that.
Hi Alex, I have been enjoying your emails for a while after finding you on a TED talk that intrigued me. I really appreciate that you give a different perspective on enhancing sexual attraction than the PUA community which I also learn from now and then.
I appreciate that you are trying to get people to see beyond their anger and to love and accept each other. That’s a good thing of course. Much better than most “seduction” guides out there.
When I watch or read materials from PUA’s I notice their thinking on what makes men masculine and attractive and also what they think women are attracted to follows a common pattern. There are certain qualities such as dominance, power, logical thinking, goal directed-ness and promiscuity that they attribute to “masculinity” . They have the idea that women feel passion for the dominant, high status man who takes what he wants.
I’ve thought about this for a long time to try to figure out if this was what I was really attracted to in men and I’ve come to the conclusion that yes, those can be attractive qualities some times. Also that there are many other sexually attractive qualities such as emotional wisdom, sweetness, being nurturing, grace and many more that I am equally attracted to no less passionately. In fact, I think that I am more attracted to variety than anything else….32 flavors and then some. I wonder if calling these qualities uniquely masculine and saying that the “nicer” qualities don’t inspire passion is actually holding us humans back from healing and enjoying each other. (For one thing, it certainly doesn’t square with what I know about our closest primate relatives, bonobos and chimps, who do not respond to dominance and power as sexually attractive. Female chimps will fuck the dominant male and then sneak off to have sex with the lower status males when he is not looking. Bonobos don’t seem to care about dominance much at all. They both do like variety and promiscuity though.)
Most marriage therapists will tell you that ANY qualities (stereotypically masculine or otherwise) that are attractive in a mate will later be the same qualities that cause conflict in a relationship. This is because we are seeking the parts of ourselves that never developed, so we will be facing the blockages in us to being all of who we are as we struggle with our partners.
Also,I wonder if as long as we hold on to this polarized view of masculinity and femininity we limit our options for really hot sex. We are still learning about what really turns women on no matter how sure the PUA’s are. We are still in the dark about what would create a world of sexual satisfaction for everybody.
If we think we know how the pieces fit together, we will not have the beginners mind we need to create what we want. There are facts that do not fit into the classic polarized picture that get ignored. For example, the bonobo’s who are very sexy chimps, have high testosterone in both males and females and have a very nurturing and compassionate culture that includes almost constant sexual activity. Testosterone has different effects on apes and people-apes in different social circumstances. It’s not black and white. In one society it creates aggression, in another, sexy times. The context is as important as the biology.
You are correct in saying that women in general are angry at men. They are also angry at other women, and probably at a lot of things in life. Men are also angry at women, other men and lots of stuff. Generally as long as men and women are frustrated they will be potentially angry at whoever is in front of them of whatever gender.
There is some truth in saying that anger is a “veneer emotion” in that it can be used by the mind to hide sadness, hopelessness and any emotion we are having trouble facing. At the same time that’s not the whole story. We can be angry because we are frustrated and sexual frustration is a huge problem for both men and women and we should fix it dammit!
I will continue to follow your work no matter what because you offer a compassionate and fresh perspective, but I would really enjoy it if as a leader, you would encourage more of a beginners mind with regards to what is masculine and what is feminine. We have a lot of healing to do together and at this point I’m feeling and seeing so many ways in which these categories are holding us back more than explaining things in a helpful way. I’m not saying that men and women aren’t different. Of course they are. We just don’t really understand the differences yet except superficially. The science is young and the emotions run high. Marketing is no excuse.
I think both of us want men and women to be all of who they are in harmony. If we think we understand what that means now and jump to judgement, we are probably limiting the good things that can happen.
I hope that makes some sense to you.–Alisa
Thank you Alisa!
My last 3 programs for men strongly emphasize the ways in which masculinity can be expressed other than “dominance”.
It’s silly to me that PUAs teach men how to relate with women when virtually none of them have successful relationships of their own. Yes, many of them get laid, and yes, some of them have girlfriends, but a great many of the most popular “dating gurus” regularly call me up for help in their relationships.
Because they are over-simplifying masculinity to a few easy buttons like dominance and leading.
As you point out, there is nothing more masculine and sexy for a woman than things like sweetness, courageous vulnerability, nurturing, protectiveness, calm ease under pressure, and, perhaps most of all, a deep appreciation and enjoyment of the feminine.
I love that you are giving men more options for masculine behavior. What would we do without you!
I’m suggesting something even deeper though. That “the masculine” and “the feminine” are blocking us from really being authentically masculine or feminine.
I live in an amazing hippy town where they will soon be celebrating the solstice by honoring “the masculine” and “the feminine” and it’s awesome because it promotes harmony and acceptance….but still, I think those categories are actually in the way of the good stuff.
I’m sure “the masculine” here will be the Dionysius hippy version who embodies only the “nicer” masculine qualities and “the feminine” will be receptive, like the earth that receives seeds and nurtures them. And I’ll go to that party and have an amazing time and go home and have super hot sex afterwards that breaks all those political conventions, yin-yang pictures and stereotypes in millions of ways.
I can’t help but think about how that ceremony leaves out some of the rougher, weirder, and more controversial aspects of male and female behavior. And it gets left out because it’s worrisome and it’s hurtful in some contexts. And because of what we think it means about us. But it would sure be great to take off the labels and get to the animal roots of the behavior that do not fit into our current ideas. To stop judging and start to gather data on what really gets us hot. What got our ancestors hot?
It also leaves out the brain chemistry. Weirdly, the intuitive supposedly feminine aspects of the mind are very sensitive to testosterone. (Read The Master and His Emissary for the biology of this).
I’m very grateful for you not over simplifying things! Leave them messy and gritty please and let’s be insatiably curious and experimental.
If any man limits himself to just appreciating “my feminine energy” I hope he gets more creative in my bedroom.
I understand what Alisa is saying and respect it to the hilt. I love the idea of the “beginners mind”. The possibility of deeper connection and passion without polarity as a focus is interesting. Yes, the science is “young” and it will still be young 500 yrs. from now.
That conversation falls on deaf ears with most couples trying to repair a relationship – which is my context.
In my work with hetero men and women, they want to find solutions before they die. When they talk about their needs, wants, and deep desires…it still clearly rings of “polarity” ala Allman, Deida, Perel, etc.
The larger conversation about resolving gender roles and stereotypes is not on their radar. Universally, they yearn for a partner who embodies the thoughts in Alex’s last four paragraphs.
Unfortunately, the biggest hurdle I find for both men and women is the “no guarantee” issue.
They absolutely yearn for the respect, understanding, approval, acceptance, and desire of the other.
But….they are scared to death to BE that person first. My favorite question is, “Who are you saving your BEST self for? And why is that?” (Brene Brown’s work on vulnerability is powerful in this part of the discussion.)
For the next few hundred years anyway, most women will still expect men to be the ones to “go first” and initiate that energy in the relationship. They want the opportunity to respond to and be opened up by the masculine.
And they will be angry when men don’t do it.
Masculinity (in my book) will continue to be defined by the FEELINGS a man creates when he chooses to do this without expectation nor concern for the outcome. It is who he is for HIM and for anyone (man or woman) who accepts his invitation to be in his life.
“Who are you saving your BEST self for?”
Thanks for letting me know you appreciated my post! That means a lot to me.
I’m not a therapist, just a happily married hedonist, but my suggestions in terms of therapy would be to encourage people think of it more like being really free to be whoever you are and to explore in a politically non-judgemental way.
If you enjoy a particular sexual polarity, consider making it an extreme sport and be really curious about how you really respond. Don’t be too quick to morally judge a sexual activity because it seems to mean something about men or women. Instead, if you can, do a little research with real science books and see if you can find an animal equivalent or suggest some roots to the behavior. Also investigate if there are any bad consequences or good consequences to the sexual thing you are interested in and take great care with your lover. Don’t ever forget that the context of the sexual activity is super important to understanding it’s roots and that there is often a spectrum of meaning. If you don’t have the patience for all that research, at least don’t judge the activity and don’t put your beloved in a category. Just explore without permanent labels.
Here is a concrete example. You mention that women want to be “opened by a man” That sounds like you mean they want to be receptive while he is active? (I think that’s what you mean, but I could be wrong.)
When I look into a similar kind of behavior…I find…
One sexual strategy that seems to have a lot of evidence behind it is when the female chimps or bonobos (our closest relatives) have sex with every male they can in the group because it seems to stop the males from killing babies later, since they never know who’s baby is who’s. In bonobo society, they just go have sex with everyone when it’s their sexy time of the month. But in chimps, the males are usually more dominant and the more dominant ones try to have as much sexual control over the sexually receptive females as possible. They treat her like property and decide who gets to “do” her as the female chimp just presents her backside.
It is to her reproductive advantage in this situation to just be “done” by the chimp tribe.
So, same strategy, promiscuity while in estrus, different behavior in the different contexts of bonobo society. There the females just go do it with whoever they want and the males seem pretty happy about it.
But isn’t it interesting how the behavior of the female chimp looks a lot like many women’s secret submissive fantasies?!
Then we modern humans just put it all in a box and say “female submissive behavior” and link it to all kinds of politics. But the real roots might actually be the tendency to be successfully sexually promiscuous and prevent infanticide in whatever context is present. (not very good fantasy fodder and too complicated to masturbate to…but probably more accurate)
Or something else.
We just don’t know.
But it’s fun to explore without guilt and find out stuff.
Essentially accurate in my opinion. I would add my personal viewpoint women have a quicker and more intense emotional response to actions by men, than men do to similar actions by women. I think this may make it harder for some women to rationalize somethng as harmless than a man in a similar situation. My guess is many women perceive things through a filtering system men don’t/can’t share or even recognize. This could be one of my male blindspots, I suppose, but I’ve found some women friends internalize anger, frustration, anxiety, hurt over events many men don’t even notice. This kind of gender disconnect (if it exists) has to get in the way of effective communication between men and women about sensitive topics. Thanks for the article.
Some women look at a man for what they want him to be then just exactly what he is. That’s an issue. Why can’t women see us for who we are? When a man loves a woman with 100% of himself and surrenders himself to her why is that man obligated to listen to the disrespect that is spoken to us? It makes big sense. And women. When y’all say that we have high standards. That is most certainly the pot calling the kettle black. Ive been in numerous relationships that the woman I was seeing had ridiculous standards that only men like tom cruise and George clooney can meet. Explain that. None of the people on this earth are perfect. We need to suck that up. Both men and women need to stick to the basic parts of a relationship like trust loyalty respect honesty compassion and loving for who we are not what we have or who you can turn us into. And yes there needs to be sexual attraction but keep it reasonable. I’m a good man but I’m not channing Tatum. That’s my thoughts
Is it possible that we learn to appreciate the dynamic tension between feminine and masculine using the differences to create grace and beauty rather than conflict?
Men and Women are the same.
It’s seems as though they are different and from different planets, communicating, and desiring different things.
It’s not true.
All men and women would love to have incredible sex, intimacy, deep feelings of love and trust and loyalty, deep feelings of adventure and passion for/with another, and a lifetime of it all together.
All men. All women.
The same way that I believe all men and all women need to overcome a lot of the challenges woven into simply being f’kn human. It’s a magnificent beast of a thing to be born into this world. Everyone has had different parents, siblings, no parents, abuse, indifference, love, hate, pain…etc etc etc…everyone.
These experiences are massively impressionable, and we’ve all had them. The challenge becomes, as conscious adults, can we face all that we are inside, all that we’ve become, and work with/on it, in a way that helps to heal.
Healing leads to greatness. The greatness we all have inside, of being the loving beings we were born into this world as.
It might sound a little hoaky self-helpy. But it’s true.
The individual work required isn’t easy though. It creates great vulnerability, it creates and reveals deep powerful feelings, that are much more easily ran from than faced and worked through. As individuals…this is a deep challenge. As a couple…forget about it…it makes it that much more difficult.
But if two people are conscious of this, have great help around them, and some kind of practice that illuminates these challenges, and helps to heal them…magic can happen.
And when two people love each other, find that love in each other, and truly share it…magic comes. Incredible things come. There are couples in the world who have this. If one couple can have it. So can all couples.
It’s HARD FKN WORK for most people. And scary as shit, to face these things within, and with another.
But magic comes of it.
I really like your action Alex. You are concise and direct and courageous with your approach to relationships. And I sense how much you care. Good on you.
I wish courage and compassion and humour to everyone seeking out a true partner.
Thank you, Mark.
It is the human condition to be uneasy and insecure. We are the product of the nervous forefathers. Those who were naturally content got eaten or killed by others. In modern society, we do not have “real” threats that would explain our uneasiness. So, commonly we attribute or ever-present unease to external circumstances or other people. Since men and women are actually different and somewhat opaque to one another, while at the same time being the subject of rather strong, fundamental urges, it is natural be confused and blame the other sex for not being quite right. But in reality, we are usually complaining about our inability to understand ourselves. This is aggravated because the brain likes to trick us into believing we understand ourselves and that our own thoughts are transparent to us, when that is not true. There’s a good reason that most versions of wisdom advocate versions of “know thyself.”
Dead on. Awakening to that understanding is the first and essential step. Of course, just knowing it doesn’t free you from it! It’s still a practice.
Dr Sigmund Freud spent 15 years of his life doing research on what pleases a woman. His conclusion. Their is none.
One issue that harms relationships today is the environment. “FOOD” People eat processed food that is causing physical and psychological disorders. Synthetic estrogen is in every thing people consume. Plastic water bottles, ready to eat micro wave food, canned food, not eating the wright food for your blood type. I think you get the picture.
Synthetic estrogen causes women to be omega females. Men with low “T” wimps and cause them to be negatively aggressive. These are some of the factors to look at. Another is the total crap on social media and TV.
The authors premise is flawed. I challenge the supposed fundamental notion women are unselfish, giving and live for other people. Women promote themselves as givers….political correctness promotes this view. Women do not understand their true nature.
Evolution has separated men and women. Women are genectically evolved to be takers. Men have evolved to be givers, providers. Women see, are most attracted to the alpha male who will give them something- security, food, shelter etc. They are looking for a man to give them something. It is not their fault. 200,000 years of homo sapien evolution.
Now, once they have the family and security they take from the man, then women exercise their nuturing capacities.
However, women are always looking for and jealous of other women who have a more alpha male. Over time they feel cheated and become disappointed in their present man. This is especially true for the highly feminized American female. The American female has been taught she should and can have everything her way. The feminists have said men and birth are the barriers to their happiness. Hence, 50% divorce rates, 75% of those divorces are filed by women now. 60 million abortions in America. No other culture of women has so carelessly thrown their babies in the trash . Insects take better care of their young than many American women. Feminism teaches this is liberation. This is the mark of highest culture.
Women should quit complaining. The more women behave masculine, move away from the feminen, the less men will see the need to care for them or exercise the provider response. Men will see you as they see other men- competitors. You are on your own. Like men, nuture yourself. Deal with problems/needs as men do. In history, men are men and have to be , because they have to fight other men/nature/animals for everything. If a man cries, collapses in the face of adversity then all is lost. Will women fill the void? The world is physical. It dominates. A man has to be aggressive and strong. Women can afford to cry , not understand science, politics, economics because society will forgive them. Society will not be sympathetic to a failed man.
You are liberated. American men, not Islamic, not Asian men have given you this option. Yet, you are not happy with American men. American Women are unhappy because there is no end to their endless needs and wants.
@JB….the most honest and truthful post I see on here…….all too much feminism shoved down men and women`s throat`s……among many other inequitable barriers against men.
regardless of who is at fault the blame almost always falls upon the man
And “amen” to “american way”.
HELL YEAH, Bro! You speak the TRUTH!
This “feminism” nonsense is bullshit…same as “mysogenist” bullshit. Oh, poor poor women can’t get what THEY want, when THEY want it, at home, in society, etc…and then when they do: they’re still not happy, and take another inch, and another inch, and another inch. Endlessly. It’s like pushing a boulder up-hill forever. Too many women are only as loyal as their options, in the moment, because a man’s track-record means nothing.
The answer for a man (and probably a woman, and probably just as a human) is simply do what you WANT, YOURSELF, ALL the time. If as a man doing your thing, the women want to flock around you and you want them around too, then great. If they don’t dig it, want more and don’t get it, take off, you ditch them, whatever…as long as it’s aligned to what you WANT, then it’s all good. You WANT to lavish them, then do it…for yourself because it feels good giving. You WANT to be alone, then do it…for yourself because it feels good recharging. If they happen to get what they want at the same time, bonus for them. No resentful giving, no regrets/guilt over caring about jumping to other’s expectations of “how high”, no “nice-guy syndrome”, none of those stupid booby-traps. Imagine perfomers on stage (bands, singers, actors, etc) acting exactly the same whether the stadium is filled or empty because the performance is them expressing themselves the way they WANT to, not expected to. Don’t buy the ticket if you don’t like it.
So, I ask you: “What do you WANT?” I ask myself that at least 10 times per day, literally. Fuck all the rest.
I want to thank you, Alex, for the insight and wisdom that you consistently share with us. I’ve learned so much from reading your emails, and I appreciate your selfless way of giving. I think that the anger comes from fear and the fear comes from a lack of understanding of men and how they really feel on the inside each and every day. I have to say that it’s not easy being a man with the consistent internal conflict of feelings and thoughts and the inability or lack of self permission to fully express them. I wouldn’t want to be a man. Having said that, I think it’s all about setting ego and fear aside and choosing the right person for each of us. I realize it’s easier said than done, but what results and love has anger ever gotten? I believe that sometimes, the man is actually texting to the walls and the anger that he senses and then we blame him for that as well. Yes, there are men that are less than noble, but overall, I believe in my heart that most men out there have the best intentions and want to be fully loved and accepted, just as us women do…ironic, isn’t it? Anyway, thanks again and hope you’re doing well.
Great posts Alex. A big thank you to all who participated. Lots a good ideas/advise. My attitude is changing Alex. I’ve got a patient named Su, She’s a wondeful woman so I was wondering if she’s the same one who posted here. Great post.
For sure it got to the point in my last marriage that all I wanted was to see her smile, so there’s something to that. We DO get to the point of giving up if no matter what we do they don’t smile about it.
But those days are over and I’m starting to see both sides of the story.
The “womens Movement” hurt women severly. Of course it was designed for that very reason. Without the Mother/wife families fall apart and society fails. I always wondered why women couldn’t see how important their roll in society is. Its the top job. The whole world revolves around Mom. I’ve always had a great respect for that and tried my hardest to support that paradigm. But with the “womens movement” then the “Me” generation and then the “entitlement” generation women have all but abandonded that paradigm. That’s a problem.
Fortunately there’s people like you and a few others that are giving that back to society. Women – be women, its your true nature and us guy don’t want to be women. We can’t do what you do. (I tried to be both Mom and Dad for a few years, I failed miserably at the Mom part of it).
Men – Be men, we’re good at it and that’s what they really want.
But we all run into the bad ones every now and then so chose wisely.
Thanks again Alex, great posts…
I LOVE men! I appreciate our differences, and I’m thankful for them. Ideally, we compliment each other.
For me, it comes down to being open and honest, and communication. First, you have to be open and honest with yourself ABOUT yourself. Both parties need to know what they have to offer, what their own faults are, and what they need and expect from the other person and from the relationship. Then they need to be open and honest with the each other about these things. They need to communicate these things to each other in a way that they will both understand. I’ve found the direct straightforward, even blunt, approach works best. Beating around the bush only leads to misunderstanding. You both need to LISTEN and really HEAR what the other is saying.
You have to be willing to accept the other person as they inherently are, too, without expectations of “changing” them, and if there are things that you just can’t do or accept then you need to walk away from that relationship.
It took me the majority of my 54 yrs. on this planet to understand this, but now that I do relationships of any kind are much easier, and more satisfying.
Just the way this is addressed in so many ways, and the brilliant honesty gives cause for great hope. I myself have no answers, it could be there is no problem as they say in yoga. Patriarchal kleptocratic casino capitalism causes all the illusory problems, one facet not addressed here. It must end , will end, with the third wave, environmental communist democratic and social revolutions now winning.. Then relations will be natural and fulfilling. A man intuitively knows not to give in to the attacks, and if defensiveness is required at one phase, so be it. The common spirituality, finding the soul mate, the common interests, and acceptacne found in long term sucessful marriages is the ideal, ideals become real in time for all it can be imagined. The US brand of faminism is too middle class and vicious to make a world movement, most countries have a much older and more developed culture, and there is a seven percent divorce rate in India, proving that tradition has its place, marriage with divine connection not just sex is what can be attained.. The blame game is a childish analysis in the end, and women are hard wired differently, so what, viva la difference.
Everybody read “Don Miguel Ruiz” on “Mastery of Love”, and “Book of Knowledge”, and learn about you !!
Build a telescope to look deeper into the heavens and you will learn something new. Build a microscope to look at smaller things and you will learn something new. It does amaze me that nobody ever looks here, when he has done this,” for thou hast MAGNIFIED thy WORD above all thy name.” So have the patience of a red man-( that is what the word Adam means literally) and let me tell you a story.
In the Big-inning God created mankind in his own image. Do you think God looks like me or you or her? Formed, made and created are not synonymous words, neither are body soul and spirit. He formed man’s body out of the dust of the ground he did not have to create it because he had already created the earth. He made man a living soul,”breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul” He did not have to create it because he created soul life when he made the animals all he had to do was give it to man. He created mankind in his own image for fellowship, you see God could not fellowship with them animals because all they had was body and soul. Gospel of John chapter 4 verse 24 declares that God is a Spirit and they that worship him MUST worship him in spirit and truth. Two nouns used as a verb, spiritually true or truly spiritual is the only way you can worship God because God is a Spirit. It is written, somewhere “the spirit it self” so it is not a he or she but an IT !
Now for the punchline, why did God create Eve? It was for fellowship, you see God did not want Adam fellowshiping with them animals either.
The misunderstanding between soul and spirit is where most people throw the book away. Being born in sin lose that
remarkable well thought out and inspirational comments on a difficult subject
My experience and study have made me conclude that patriarchal kleptocratic casino capitalism is behind or underneath the divisiveness of people, and guess where its headquarters are?
So the coming occupy, third wave, communist, gay, faminist, human rights, wage reform, and environmentalist revolutions, , which are unstoppable, will make natural and fulfilling relations the norm. Other countries with long established and deep cultures are incorporating the best of both worlds, modern and traditional into working models. In India a seven percent divorce rate, GPS , computers and satellites are lifting the first wave majority masses from poverty, and the spiritual connection for sex happens, honoring the divine aspects of the phallus, erotic art like the kama Sutra adding variety and depth as some seek here, and real family connection that lasts throughout life, it is their culture, as it is in East and Southeast Asia. So we can be non judgmental, First we are human, then a certain sex, primary and secondary, ying and yang, all needed for the harmony and balance. Thanks for the giving of hope here, and help all souls become liberated , free, and enlightened by continuing your caring work
Sorry about the timing on this I thought a little bit of the background make you understand what I’m trying to say about the misunderstanding between the sexes. They throw the book away because it says that Adam and Eve are going to die, yet they had kids for 900 years. Not a contradiction in the Scriptures it is a contradiction in their understanding of life. They were spiritually dead and naked. There’s light that you don’t see, their are sounds you don’t hear and as of yet not a microscope that sees life. This spiritual hunger is what is missing in most people’s life and for whatever reason look at the animals, look at the Indians, the harmony in their villages was known worldwide before the United States ever thought about being an entity. The harmony in the villages why? The work was separated, today we have women’s doing man’s job in man’s doing women’s job is no wonder that it’s a cluster fv$k. Take the Buffalo for instance, the female decide who they’re going to mate, and usually it’s a male. you know what you have to do to have voting rights in some of the tribes you had to be a grandmother. they were the ones that new if he was a drunkard, or if he took care of the family, or if he played with his weenie on the telephone. but they had to vote for a male. because we are different.
I would like to thank you and your friends that have studied the body and soul part of our lives that I have sorely mist with my studies once again thanks
Personally I’m over wading through all the crap with relationships with women. Most romantic relationship have just cause me pain and heartbreak, and then I’m to blame. Unfortunately I’m way too familiar with being broken, perplexed and confused all at the same time. I know that some of it was probably to do with me. Then I look at my Ex-Darling and see the brokenness and pain in her. What is going on?? Is this insanity? Thanks Alex for shedding some insight on this jumbled area of my life.
I have now determined to withdraw my caring, strong, protective, fun loving nature. Outside of my kids and family, for the next six to twelve months, I will be minimising all female contact. I will be still courteous and understanding (as far as I can) but have no other serious interaction. I know this is running away for a bit, but I need a break from this insanity. Might even be able to clean up this jumbled area of mine.
I’ll do a review in mid December and see how it is going, before the next six month period.
I love reading all of these perspectives from obviously aware, astute educated interested men and women… and would like to add the wisdom of my 88 year old mother. She was married to an abusive husband for 38 years and was a slave to five children after having lost her own mother as a teenager, suffering through the great depression, the War, 1940’s abortion etc etc…… She believes that we look to the animal kingdom for perspective on the sexes.
When I am in conflict with my beautiful man…. I think of the Lion perched on Pride Rock. He is there for many reasons, most of which are to benefit his female pride. “Pride” is essence of his purpose and the source of his fulfillment.
I really believe that our western culture has emasculated men and forced both men and women to lose sight of what lies deep within our paleocortex (ape brain) and which is often ignored or undervalued. I believe to ignore our primal instincts drives us into perpetual gratification seeking behaviour which is not able to be fulfilled. It is like a never ending hunger.
If we think of men as cats – happy to be alone, but equally motivated to seek warmth and comfort, independent, strong and resilient and couragous…. along with many other traits.
…. and women as dogs….. happy and safe within a pack, loving, nurturing, protective and yet resilient and strong. Loyal and truly happy to care when content and safe…….
Doesnt it beg the question… Would we ever expect our cat to behave the same as our dog?
Would be expect the same greeting when we walk through the door?
Do we love each animal regardless of their differences?
Do we value the strengths and traits of each animal equally?
When we call the cat…. do we expect the dog to come?
When we are feeling low….. does both animals respond differently?
When I think of my wonderful man as a warm loving cat….. sometimes aloof, often seeking solitude, sometimes disappearing for periods of time….. I am reminded that his behaviour is not about me at all. It is necessary for him.
When both of us respect our differences, it is so much easier to tolerate, understand, forgive and support.
It really makes so much sense and I feel it is this acceptance of difference that lies at the root of changing each persons reactions, resentment, anger and frustration into unconditional acceptance with consideration and understanding and mutual respect.
Will be interested to see what you think.
I hate stupid people. And from the whole group op stupid people, there is exactly 50% of men and 50% of women. The problem is, that if men are being stupid, it irritates mainly women, and if women are being stupid, it irritates mostly men. Because the opposite gender just do not get it.
I think we women have a LOT of work on our femininity, which we have been supressing for centuries. And in needs to be fixed and putted into a right place in ourselves so we can fully love the masculine. The older I get, the more women I cannot stand for the exact reasons as men do.
I am glad to be woman, because me as a woman I have better chances to find a good guy, then when man is seeking for a wonderful women. If I would be a man in todays world, I would be very frustrated out of these bitchy women I see every day around me.
Don’t try to change a man, try to become a better woman who can understand things from his perspective. As you grow as a person, overwhelm him with the love and acceptance that you have at the time. This will gradually wash over him, and he *may* eventually become a better person too.
This takes a flood of love and acceptance, probably MORE THAN ONE WOMAN CAN GIVE. Don’t wear yourself out, go get 3+ more women and work together for him. You gain the close friendship and shared intimate experiences to talk about (female bonding). The only thing stopping you is your pride.
As WOMEN HAVE THE HIGH LOVE CAPACITY for multiple children & close girl friends simultaneously, each deeply and uniquely, men can likewise love multiple women at once.
Just because a man is interested in another woman. does NOT mean he isn’t also interested in you. If a man “looks” at another woman, it makes NO difference to him about his relationship with you. Most women have equal affection for multiple pairs of shoes, dresses,… Would you think it unreasonable for your shoes to bitch about you getting another pair?
From what Odette astutely wrote, I agree that men are more like lions and rams (grown up lambs), i.e;- polygamous at heart.
That’s the way men ARE. If a woman can’t deal with that reality, she’s free to have lesbian love. As men throw off the old religiously imposed shackles and become more REAL (less of a distant shell of a man), these long suppressed traits surface.
Women hate men because men have feelings that matter to them, and women can’t figure that out, because male feelings social connections are considerably different to female.
This video (by a woman) explains much:
New research seems to be indicating that women want sexual variety as much as men. So men may need to learn new attitudes too around women being essentially non monogamous too. Women have been savagely trained to deny our sexuality, and centuries of brutal suppression has far from disappeared in the last 50 years. If you think women are unreasonable in reacting when ‘their’ man looks at other women, consider what you may feel in the reverse position. It’s kind of you to allow women lesbian connections. What if she wants another man?
You have said it all Odette, I wish all could read it.
ALisa addressed s similar issue ,with how to learn
from animals. Carl Sagan in Cosmos talks about
cultures that fondle infants, and allow adolescent sexualtiy
as being non violent and more healthy
It is a great releif to hear from two real women
who are not kneejerking to the issues
ultimately it’s women’s fault.
“Women constantly complain about men.
Why Women Are So Angry With Men… #YesAllWomenAnd who can blame them? The human condition for straight women is to be naturally attracted to a gender that is not only capable of harming them physically, but is also well noted for seeking sexual variety and dramatic bouts of insecurity which means men also frequently hurt them emotionally.”
AH simply put the bad boy dynamic and why all the psychos get yesallwomen.
“So women complain about those qualities and label men neanderthal, player, or douche-bag, and become insecure or angry when they see their man exhibiting those characteristics.”
This is how women catch 22 us. Kind of the way a women wears a certain outfit and one so much as pays a compliment and it’s CREEPY STALKER PERVERT…unless of course you are Brad Pitt.
“Men who are “nice” and would “never hurt a fly” often win a woman’s heart, but not her attraction, which can lead women to become ever more frustrated.”
Actually they win a first class ticket to the friend zone. All expenses paid (by him.) Meaning she uses him as an emotional tampon and compensation (monetary) or otherwise when things don’t go her way. they actually resent that someone who isn’t in their league is expressing romantic interest and act on that resentment by friendzoning and exploiting them. The wiser of the men will eventually shed this nice guy husk and go out and show them how it is done. Getting her before she gets him. Women bring it on themselves and dare to cry out “where are all the nice guys!”
“It’s my observation that neither men nor women in our society have a realistic ideal for what masculinity ought to look like in a intimate relationship, and until they do, men will continue to disappoint women simply by being men.”
Men have it down pat, women like you said will resent the fact and hence the “change” on men they try to perform. Elements such as feminism, feminazis, shaming men, and all those attributes you pointed out is women’s resentment shining through in an effort to gain control and superiority over men. Men can get 99/100 things right and women will still try to damn us to a thousand hells.
“For those men the reward is a woman who is capable of profound surrender and perfect acceptance. ”
You better hope a feminist never reads that. SURRENDER? That word of Patriarchy really gets them started. As in be a submissive little creature to a stronger and more able one? NEVER. This is exactly their mindset.
Yureon I am a feminist and I LOVE surrendering to a man! There are so few men who have the strength and presence for a woman to feel safe enough to surrender……that’s the problem from my viewpoint.
A weak man will never inspire a woman to surrender.
You confuse ‘surrender’ with ‘submission’. Surrender is an active choice made in the moment. For a woman to surrender in an ongoing way, she needs a man who earns it in an ongoing way. Most men are not up for the level of personal responsibility it takes to inspire a woman to fully surrender.
It’s a quality issue on both sides of the fence.
Yureon I am a feminist and I LOVE surrendering to a man! There are so few men who have the strength and presence for a woman to feel safe enough to surrender……that’s the problem from my viewpoint.”
You aren’t a “feminist” you are a woman. The segment about so few men who have the strength and presence. Your viewpoint is skewed. It’s not a matter of when are men going to STEP UP, so much as it is when are women going to STEP DOWN. To surrender is to essentially submit so there is no confusion.
It’s like A man and a woman have a car. A man says I am driving. Woman says no I AM DRIVING everytime they go out. Argument blah blah blah, then woman drives and complains that she has to and that man never wants or steps up to drive. You are confusing that men are being weak, with men being fed up and opting out of constantly being antagonized, challenged, and griefed. They now see women as RIVALS instead of PARTNERS.
The reason why you perceive that men are seldom leaders is because you (women have become leaders) yourselves. Not maybe your case in the following but with feminists it’s WOMEN= GOOD MEN= BAD.
Regardless of what you or I think what feminism is or how it should be followed, the changes (for the worse) have been made in the name of that horrible ideology (And conditions today in areas where feminism is rampant are living proof.) Yes equality between the sexes by solely focusing on one gender.
“Most men are not up for the level of personal responsibility it takes to inspire a woman to fully surrender.”
ANYMORE. As in there is no incentive, no reward and are tired of being demanded things by women only to be told they aren’t owed anything if those demands are indeed met. It goes back to opting out of wanting to date or interact.
I agree with you, Rosie. A weak man will never inspire a woman to surrender. And, surrender is certainly not the same as submission. The unfortunate situation for men is they have no idea how to be men anymore. It is either the super-nice, new-age guy who “wouldn’t hurt a fly” or the Don Draper, PUA, alpha-male type (that we are fascinated by and begrudgingly attracted to only b/c they are temporarily magnetic and somewhat of a novelty after so many butt-kissers). I don’t blame them. They are so confused. And, so are women. They don’t understand why they don’t like the “nice” guy. They don’t like him b/c he doesn’t like himself. And… he has no idea who he is or what he really wants. He only knows what he thinks he is supposed to say or how he thinks he is supposed to act. Even if a woman can’t articulate it very well, the reason she is not attracted to him is b/c she does not trust him.
It is nice to have men like Alex to provide another perspective of what it means to be a strong man that will attract an amazing women who will love you exactly as you are. A strong woman can try to help a wonderful man in her life by providing a safe place for him to start being honest about who he is and what he wants. She might actually stop resenting him so much.
I find I can identify as both dog and cat…as well as many other animals…in different moments of my life!
Certainly for our species to continue one gender needs to supply the sperm and the other grow and birth the offspring, but after that I think it would be great if we could just feel able to explore who we are as a person – rather than specifically a man or a woman.
I think ‘gender differences’ are often used to explain, expect and excuse a variety of behaviours and views (not always in a positive way) and yet not even neurobiologists can agree on whether there are sex differences in the brain, and if there are at what stage of development did they occur. You can find a scientist to confirm your own belief which ever ‘side’ you’re on!
I personally don’t identify with the ‘dominant man/submissive woman’ theory. It’s not a dynamic I ever grew up with and it’s not a part of my life now as an adult. (Perhaps it’s a cultural thing?) I just see everyone as on their own journey trying to figure out the ups and downs of their life, and trying to improve themselves and their life.
I think Alisa said it fantastically well in her posts. For me, I just want to feel free to learn more about myself and to be 100% free to be me. And that’s what I want for the people in my life too, both men and women. I wonder if trying to figure things out in a ‘gender’ way somehow limits people and doesn’t give them them the space to be whoever they truly are as an individual? We frequently are all angry with each other but maybe it stems from frustration at not being at peace with ourselves and in our own lives, rather than something the other person has ‘done’. We just think it’s because of the other person. (Or perhaps we’re just seeing in the other what we unconsciously dislike in ourselves?!)
(With regard to the low divorce rate in India, while there are many many wonderful aspects of Indian culture, I don’t think it can really be used as an example of how things ‘should’ be. Many women in India are very badly treated, not to mention the caste system which treats huge sections of society, both men and women, unfairly.)
I think one of the keys to a successful relationship is acceptance. I’ve recently found a woman ok with me still playing the field. I asked her about it and she said she didn’t feel the need to lock me down because i treat her like she is special and spoil her. Which i do because i really appreciate the freedom she gives me which very little other women seem to forget do to their jealousy or as you put it in a more general label “fear”. I like to be an honest man and a man of my word and I’ve held and will hold my end of that respect and trust she has for me.
I feel I can really trust her enough to be vulnerable to her. In a sense I surrender to her, I think both sexes should learn that wonderful feeling about surrendering to each other through acceptance, trust, honesty and respect which all leads to a deeper more rich love for each other. I hope my relationship never ends with her and it never has to as long as we accept each other for who we are with an open dialog. It’s an awesome experience to think about spending time with a person like that because it gave me more reasons to enjoy life. Not just for myself but with her. I hope this doesn’t come off as gloating too much, I wanted to add what has helped me. Alex already touched on it as fear holding us back but it makes sense to want to protect yourself from harm and humiliation, but once you learn to accept yourself and stand by your beliefs you realize being your true self saves so much time and you feel more confident in what works for you.
Thank you for that kernel of truth and wisdom from your mother who is now probably a grandmother who sounds very Native. Did you know the foundation of our Constitution was given to the Colonists from the Indians? Google search (taxes and axes) chapter 7. This reminisces the fact that the colonists did note did not know what freedom and liberty was until they met the Indians ! The Heathens had a scheme of laws that protected the minority, because all the tribes were not the same size. This scheme of laws was a godsend to the colonists because of their religious persecution they had suffered in Europe. This may be a bit off the path of our conversations, however, I agree with you that this is advanced class material from everyone and needs to be known if we are going to fix it. The checks and balances, the first one we lost, was the voting power of the grandmother it was her husbands and sons and grandsons fighting in wars so they would train up individuals to be Chiefs to stay out of wars. The loss of these checks and balances starts the organized confusion that we see today. A kernel of truth is not the whole truth, similar to jots and tittles of God’s word, when you shine a light into somebody’s eyes, it usually hurts.
I think AZ hit the nail right on the head. I’ve given this a lot of thought over the years, especially when I was raising my three girls and two boys. I was a teenage girl during the feminist revolution in the 70s, so just when I was trying to figure out what a woman should be there was almost too much to decipher for my mind to handle. I could be like Donna Reed and Doris Day, or maybe more like Mary Tyler Moore or even Anais Nin. The choices boggled the mind. I finally decided to forget about all the ideas about masculine and feminine because I could see both of these aspects in myself and everyone around me. I know I’m an outside the box type of thinker, but I believe if more of us could look beyond the male/female exterior to the spirit inside instead of categorizing ourselves and others we might be able to crack this relationship thing once and for all. Of course there will always be all those painful lessons we have to learn…
Hi To Charles : )
I just read your very eloquently stated description of a real man & I must concur that you are a lovely & real man who is kind, wise, intelligent, romantic, mature & you are the kind of man that I know & that my family has in it. I truly feel sorry for women that have never met a real man & I am a real lady.
I just wanted to share with you that it was so nice reading your sweet & honest comment & what you wrote truly touched my heart.
My 26 year old lovely son was a real man & he had a genetic terminal disease & passed away 20 months ago. He was a carbon copy of my Father, Grandfather… Like the real men you wrote about.
I began dating a man just over a year ago & this man actually posed as a real man & with the wisdom from my Father, I chose to wait a year to marry him. Sadly his acting has caved in & a very sad & insecure man is what is really under the act. It’s sad & I can’t teach him to be a kind man to women or anyone…
My advice to everyone is to be your honest self & to experience as much as one can with someone, before making a deep commitment.
Thank you for posting your very insightful message & I hope you are able to pass on your wisdom to other men. How lucky the lady in your life is to be with a real man!
I still believe in these cases that “a few bad apples spoil the whole harvest.” That and having poor examples for parents or lack thereof as well.
If we can’t teach our kids how to properly become real men & women, they will very poorly learn it from elsewhere and act out in detail everything they have learned from parents, teachers, TV show & sitcoms, etc.
Lastly, as mentioned before in my last post, everywhere you look in the bible, classic literature, history, TV, so many other great works throught the ages that show dynamics of men and women, you will see great examples of maturity & destructive behaviours and treatments that result from great or poor examples from the public or parents at home. Not to mention, people also coping with autism, ADD, ADHD, FAS, or any other cognitive issues that can hinder people’s ability to love one another too.
People in position to help like Alex Allman, Personal Life Media, X & Y Communications are doing their part to help and do what they can, but they can only do it for so long before they’re finished, it is up to all of us MEN & WOMEN to take responsibility for our actions and CHOOSE to DO BETTER NOW! For the sake of better lives for future generations and for us right now, get off the fence and act now.
The contrast between what causes hard attraction in a woman to begin with and the qualities that are likely to create a good loving long-term relationship is at the heart of most of the problems between the sexes. It’s also what attraction literature and coaches help logical minded men to understand. To men – women’s attraction does not appear logical – or at least obeys a different logic. I’m not blaming women for this at all- it’s just part of their genetic predisposition in the same way that men are predisposed to be attracted to curvaceous women with lustrous hair.
What makes for a good long term relationship is mutual respect, emotional sensitivity and understanding and commitment. What gets women attracted initially, or at least the majority of women I meet, is just the opposite of all these qualities – Excitement, challenge, emotional variation, inter-female competition. The softly, softly, nice guy approach just doesn’t work because attractive women powerfully screen out the weak. What works is playfully challenging women, showing that you’re slightly indifferent to what happens with them and them seeing you in no uncertain terms as a sexual man who has no trouble getting women…….I have been both of these guys in my life and the difference was just ridiculous. There was a year or so ago when I wanted to get a lot more experienced with women and I would go out and do the ‘worst’, least romantic or even respectful thing I could possibly do to the girl that I was attracted to in logical terms…… I would kiss her friend, pull other girls in front of her, stepping into hazardous situations, standing a girl up (only if she had been extremely bitchy and manipulative to me though)……and you know what happened – I got with more women than at any other point in my life…and they fought over me and fought for my attention….It was a hilarious if somewhat disturbing experience…….It seemed like women were actually turned on by my bad behavior and saw me as more valuable because I could get away with it……Fucked up…..absolutely…..true……100%…
There is a lot of emphasis on male self-improvement, and it’s good that we strive to improve, become better men, understand ourselves and women more………But women are probably even screwed up and definitely more illogical than men…….A part of me used to be disgusted with women when I would actually begin to see how their attraction actually operated……..I accepted it and reaped the rewards in a way I’d never previously experienced but most certainly I no longer see women in the way that I used to….
No doubt that men are not perfect or even perfectly civilized, but women are certainly no better and no more civilized when it comes to dating and mating……
For us men, it’s hard to find a hero to look up to these days. Men are subliminally taught to be submissive and the “men” today are more wussies than men. I read an article not long ago that Matt Damon was complaining about the James Bond character being a bad example of how to treat a woman. Huh? For decades James Bond has been the ultimate role model for men and women fantasized about being with a real man like Bond. So we should all be “nice guys” and treat women as all being nice girls too so we give them nothing to fantasize about and nothing to feel sexual energy and feminine lust about? I’ll just leave it at this, I would put my money on Sean Connery, as old as he is, being able to turn more women on than a wussy like Damon.
Jon – I agree with Matt Damon. James Bond is not a good role model. He does nothing for me. I’d much rather Matt!
JP – when I hear of men behaving in that PUA-way I find it very disheartening. I can’t imagine who these women are that let you treat them so badly. Perhaps the ones who respond to that sort of treatment are women who have had poor treatment growing up? I can’t think of any other reason why anyone would allow a disrespectful person in their life.
I treat everyone the way I want to be treated myself. With respect and kindness. It’s very sad to see that some men think it’s ok to treat women like that – and it’s even worse to hear that some women allow it. I can only guess there’s some sort of lack of confidence or feelings of insecurity behind it – on both sides. It’s all a bit mean I think, and certainly a very negative way to relate to others.
I don’t expect perfection in anyone, but I do expect compassion and respect as standard. Otherwise they can’t stay in my life.
As far as I am concerned, women bring most, if not all, of their problems with men on themselves. They hook up with thugs, jerks, lowlifes, douchbags and sociopaths, and can’t understand why they get smacked around and/or treated like crap. They have no clue how easy they have it. All they have to do is 1) look their best, and 2) choose wisely. Given the appalling rates of divorce, domestic violence and cheating, it seems to me they have a lot of trouble with that second part. Remember, what you reward, you encourage more of. If is one of the most fundamental principles of human nature